swindon hammer
3:00 Mon Nov 6
Re: Sack Bilic
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Boleynkid,
not happy but it had to been done.
I don't want Moyes but even he is a better manager than Bilic.
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Takashi Miike
2:56 Mon Nov 6
Re: Sack Bilic
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if Moyes was the only manager available and the club was skint I'd agree with your point but there are better managers available and we have money available to pay them rather than yet more stagnation
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boleynkid
2:52 Mon Nov 6
Re: Sack Bilic
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I assume everyone who wanted Slav out is happy with today's news ?
How many agree it will be better to have Moyes than Bilic ?
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claret on my shirt
8:08 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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23 pts in 24 league games, terrible football being played, seriously why is still our Manager?
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Alex V
6:47 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Also if we're talking about squad quality then one of the most important factors is the mix, ie how well those players go together. Say for example our defence - I think any one of Reid, Collins or Fonte might make a good senior option as part of a younger back line, but having them together is too slow. Zabaleta might be a decent elder statesman role that brings good experience but why do you need that alongside Fonte? Hernandez is a great finisher but without a compact possession style how do you ever feed him the ball in the box.
Even if the quality of the squad is more mid-table ish, the blend of those players is comically bad. No new manager can solve that really until next Summer.
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DJH
6:28 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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chelmsfordhammer
The Bilic playing style is there but it isn't successful because we don't have the quality of player in Payet that brought Bilic the success in his first season and even in that season a Payetless side was a pretty negative and defensive side tactically.
Nothing really has changed other than without Payet we are not scoring the 2's and 3's needed to get results.
Sadly we have not been able to bring in the quality to continue the attacking style we had successfully deployed that season but the negative tactics also seen that season are still employed at many games after a few defeats so I don't Bilic's style has changed that much.
If you bring in a manager like Bilic you need top players like he had at Croatia, otherwise he is a pretty limited manager with average Premier League players or worse which our squad is littered with despite what others believe.
What we need is a completely different style of manager to get the best from every player and I don't believe we can attract that caliber of manager so better off with a Pulis type manager under them who gives simple instructions to simple players then, I think the board know that and think that continuing with Bilic is the lesser of two evils right now,
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chelmsfordhammer
5:51 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Djh, I’m sorry if the players can’t carry out the tactics that bilic wants to play then the tactics certainly are the problem. Although I think it’s hard to actually the tactics we re trying to carry out because half the time it seems that we haven’t actually got a style of play.
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DJH
5:44 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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I don't think Bilic's tactics are the problem but the ability of the squad to adapt to them because the quality is not there THROUGHOUT the side to carry them out.
When we want to be attacking we lack pace, quality and mobility in vital positions so moves quickly grind to halt and when we play more defensively we are often putting attacking players in uncomfortable defensive positions which exposes them.
As a club we need to identify a style of football throughout and start recruiting and developing players suited to it otherwise we might as well stick with a manager like Allardyce who is suited to grinding our results with a mish mash of a squad which has undoubted quality but not necessary the right quality neeeded.
Bilic is not the man to oversee this but he was not this man when recruited and I see little point of changing him to anything other than a Moyes or Dyche unless the owners completely change how the club operates.
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chelmsfordhammer
5:33 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Djh, first of all you have no idea if that’s actually the case. I know you’d like it to be but the truth is as kronic pointed, out nobody actually knows what player was signed by who.
The only thing we do know is bilic wanted carvalho and the board fucked up when trying to sign him. A massive fuck up I believe but that doesn’t mean the board are responsible for every signing , in fact it was bilic that identified him as a player he wanted so we can assume that many of the players we have signined were down to him identifying them as well.
But as I say , that’s all guesswork ,and unless you’ve got some inside info that’s all it ever will be.
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Sir Alf
5:28 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Agree comma. None of us are privy to what goes on all week, the tactics, instructions to players, the fitness and training regime as compared to other teams.
This last transfer window saw us create a striker roster that looks ok now but as is the West Ham way, we do everything piecemeal. We did not reinforce the central midfield which is still a big problem and we have little depth in terms of quality in the full/wing back positions.
Most fans instincts are that Bilic should be getting better results from the squad. The goals against is the stat that screams out for improvement and yet we are shipping 2+goals a game for 16 - 17 months.
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chelmsfordhammer
5:26 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, I really wanted bilic to succeed and I agree players must take some of the responsibility as well because ifvas they claim they’re 100% behind the manager then they’ve got a funny way of showing it.
My main criticism of bilic is he never seems to learn from his mistakes , tactically we never learn and he seems to refuse to accept that some players arent suited to certain positions.
But I won’t be jumping for joy when he finally goes because I wanted him to succeed here as I do any manager that’s in charge of West Ham but at the end of the day the club is bigger than any one manager and any one player .
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DJH
5:24 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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chelmsfordhammer 5:15 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
You said if transfers are imposed on him then more fool him for accepting that, other than threatening to quit or get sacked for breach of contract I don't understand how you expect Bilic to stop the owners from doing that to him?
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,
5:22 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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There is a simple question to clear up here and it is do we think that Bilic is getting the best out of his squad?
We can argue all day long about responsibility for individual purchases and loans but it is what happens on the field of play and training pitch that matters.
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stewie griffin
5:21 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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I quite like Marco SILVA - but they've shipped 10 goals in 2 games against the top 6, and just got rolled over at home by Stoke. Nothing amazing there at all.
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stewie griffin
5:19 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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*accountable for that part
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stewie griffin
5:18 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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That's fair enough, Chelmsford, but I agree 100% with Kronics post below. No one knows because of them cunts. That's how it is unfortunately.
Fwiw, as I said, the dire football, the constant chopping & changing, and the lack of fitness all point to the fact that its time for change, for me - but I think, very strongly, that people's desire to replace him means the players getting an easy ride for their roles in our situation. These are highly (over)paid players, and grown adults, who should take more responsibility for whats happening. Noble even said as much himself last week.
And that isn't a 'defence' of Bilic - following the Spurs comeback, I didn't claim it as some kind of managerial masterstroke, to me it was obvious that we simply upped our workrate, closed people down, put pressure on the man in possession and won some second balls. That, I'm afraid, should be the bare minimum in every game from players. If they fall short of that, they're accountable, no one else.
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Sir Alf
5:18 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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There must be a manager out there who is available, has a decent track record and can organise us a lot better defensively despite the limitations of some squad members?
There are small margins involved and it would be great to know how much Bilic and his team focus on the details, and the instructions players get as compared to other teams/clubs. Some managers are renowned for their obsession with details ( Guardiola , Silva are known for it apparently). The idea that improving every aspect by 1% can achieve an overall improvement in results on the pitch ( I recall that British biking coach explaining how our national team became world leaders ( excluding drugs of course :-) )).
From the outside it all appears to be a relaxed, " do your best lads" approach and the recurring theme under Bilic is lack of intensity and work rate from players across the team. Partially due to a lack of pace in some areas but the Brighton game was the more recent example with players not busting a gut to get behind the ball when we lose it. Are they simply lacking the stamina? Or are they not being told to get back to provide the cover for defence and track the runners?
Gawd knows? but sticking with Bilic will see us go down this season. We really got away with it last season and the 6 points from 11th to 17th was misleading.
The season is a write off already and there is yet another dark cloud hovering our club as there seems to be every other bleedin season. The owners are definitely a root cause and they will not change unless the crowd/fans turn on them. Unfortunately, the new stadium /new fans I dont know seems to have created a passive, resigned fan base who are sleepwalking with the team into the Championship ? :-(
Our recruitment strategy is at best a "patchwork quilt" and short term.
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chelmsfordhammer
5:15 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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DJH, ER where have i said he should just walk away, i believe he should be sacked.
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Alex V
5:13 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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>>>> if all those players are as shit as you Claim then again bilic must take some of the responsibility for signing them
Bilic definitely does take some responsibility for the state of the squad. But acknowledging that doesn't really mean anything - it's not like we can roll it back. We have to live with the consequences of really poor investment - it will take years to play out, whether Bilic stays or goes.
Of the current squad, who can we legitimately expect to improve? Well young players who are developing, okay - maybe a new manager can actually get Masuaku and Fernandes to actually cement a first team place and be more useful. I can see the theory there.
But the more senior players, how can they improve? I think it would be bizarre if their performances were so tied to the influence of the coach, it would be a weakness in them if that were true. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. With most of the senior players I think what we're seeing is simply what they can produce, and that's the end of it really. I don't think very many of them are producing to a good standard - I think that almost certainly means they simply aren't very good.
Yes of course I'd like a new manager. Maybe we could iron out a more consistent system of play where players might be able to contribute more. But honestly in the past decade or so, there are so few about turns in form of the type we might wish for. I'd struggle to think of a set of players who weren't clicking who suddenly turned into a different standard of squad under a new manager. Maybe Leicester last season, but then that was a bit of a rollback - they just reverted to the previous season's selection and system, we can't do that. We see heaps of managerial changes each season in this league. I think the honest truth is that there are never any miracle cures, and where you are in the league is probably somewhere near where your squad deserves to be - there are very few exceptions.
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DJH
5:13 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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chelmsfordhammer
I think the summer proved that Bilic's involvement in transfer is little more than someone offering you a bag of sweets and you choosing which ones you want from it as ultimately someone else decides what sweets go in the bag not you so they should be accountable for the quality of the contents.
I have no doubt that a few players are totally of Bilic's choosing but I believe most are not and if you think a bloke on a contract earning money he will probably never earn again will walk away from that simply because of having players imposed on him or denied to him then I think you are sadly deluded.
As I said earlier we are an unnecessary difficult club to manage thanks to how the owners run the club and we will struggle to attract the type of manager that many of us desire while they continue to run it that way.
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chelmsfordhammer
5:12 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, i agree that the board should take all the flak for the cavalho debacle , that was purely down to them .
But you've just said bilic identified who he wanted to sign and the board didn't deliver so we can assume then that all the other players we've signed bilic at least had some say in those signings or did he just let the board go out and sign them . Either way he's at least partly responsible for the current squad we have.
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